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An Interview with

Jack  White

by James Leonard-Amodeo
Interviews
If you're an artist and would like to be interviewed, please contact us.
Please note that there is a fee associated with an interview.
The Directories of American Art Galleries
September 2003
Where were you born and grow up?
          I was born on a remote west Texas ranch during the great depression. My mother was very young, about fifteen, so I was left in the care of my grandparents until my grandfather died. I was six. My grandmother raised me until she was injured in a bus wreck when I was 10. I drifted from family to family all over Texas. My four years of high school I lived in the guy. I was a four-sport athlete and excelled at all levels. A knee injury in football prevented me from playing professional baseball. I ended up playing football in college. High school gym

Were you a foster-child?
          No I was not a foster child. I would move in with an aunt or uncle until they told me to leave. Then I'd go seek another family member and stay until I was told it was time I move on. Remember this was during the depression and WWII years. I never knew my father or any of his relatives so the only family I had was on my mother's side. They were uneducated farm workers and barely had enough money for their own children. I made my shirts myself out of flower sacks. Back then 50lb flower and some feed came in patterned cloth. I learned to sew by hand and made my own shirts for school until I got in high school and then I did odd jobs for spending money.  Since I was such an excellent athlete the coach let me live in the school gym and eat in the cafeteria at night.  It sounds a lot worse than it was. At least I didn't live in a home where I was beat up every day.  Holidays were the lonely times because everyone had homes to go to. I just hung around school. I became a great shooter in basketball because that's about all I had to do. This is a little long, but this will let you know a little about me. None of my family members ever went past the 5 th grade. The majority could not read nor write.  As kids they were pulled out of school to work in the fields.  None of their children ever went to college. I'm the only one to get a degree. 
          I missed the third grade because I was forced to pick cotton until almost Christmas. Fortunately, later on, my school skipped me up to the grade I would have been in.
I was student body president in college and Captain of my football team. So living on my own was not all that bad. I do admit I was a skinny kid. Weighed 98 as a freshman. Now I'm 6-1" and weigh 200.

How old are you now?
          I was 70 in March of this year.

You are 70 and still going strong. I guess you can testify that age doesn't really slow an artist down, or does it? 
          I never think of age. I really think attitude is a big factor. I have so many projects to work on I'm going to have to live to at least 120 to get some of them done. I eat right, and exercise. I have never smoked; I'm not a drinker and limit my coffee to one morning cup. I don't drink soft drinks, mostly water. The one thing I love about being an artist is you never have to retire. My friend A, D. Greer was working on a painting when he died at 97.

Of what nationality are your parents?
          On my mother's side: Her father was English; that is to say, his family came from England. My grandmother was Irish, McGee. Her mother was the first woman doctor in the Republic of Texas. Her dad was a Texas Ranger. I never knew my father. He was a traveling gambler. Killed a man in a poker game about the time I was born and when he was released from prison he went back to Kansas. I understand he was Swedish.

Were your parents artists?
          No.

Do you have any brothers or sisters? Any of them artists?
          I'm an only child. My mother married 9 times. I never lived with her but I understand because I was born when she was so young something happened so she could have no other children.

If nobody was an artist in your family, who influenced you into thinking about becoming a Fine Artist? I think we all have some source of inspiration that attracts us toward the Arts. What was yours?
          My grandfather took me into town in a wagon when he was living. He died when I was 6. I stumbled into a library when I was about 5. The two ladies who ran the small library gave me paper and crayons and had me draw. I went each Saturday for I guess about a year. It was then I knew I wanted to be an artist. I got such a wonderful feeling from them telling me how good I was doing. I guess the seed germinated until one day, when I was 36, I stumbled into an art gallery.  When I saw real paintings for the first time I knew this is what I wanted to do. It was like I was 5 again.

Why did you finally choose this career?
          I had just gone bankrupt in the construction business losing a million dollars when a million was a million and needed to find a way to feed my sickly wife and three small children. I thought I could paint and sell enough to support my family.

But you must have dabbled in the arts before this, right?
          I doodled but not anything called "art". I would draw cartoons. I drew house plans. But nothing you could call a painting. Remember in Texas the only image we saw in the movies of male artist were some gay with a pink poodle, wearing a beret and talking with a lisp. Artists were depicted as homosexuals and not something "real men" did. No male would dare say he was an artist in the circle I grew up in. I never knew any men that were artists. I mention Melvin Warren. He was one of the founders of the Cowboy Artist of America. His painting was the one that I first saw and was shocked to realize men made art. I'm talking about macho men. When I was in the gallery looking around the director showed me a picture of Melvin. I was stunned to see he was a real cowboy. It just clicked in my head that I could do what he was doing. I left the gallery that day knowing I could do it.

How long have you been an artist?
          33 years. I walked into an art gallery for the first time in 1969, around Christmas time. I had never seen any original art before. I thought I could do what I saw hanging on those walls, so I went home and thrilled my wife and told her I was going to become an artist. I sold my first painting Feb. 14 ,1970, for $10.

But how did you know what brushes, supports and paints to buy? Didn't you have any coaching?
          This is where fate stepped in. When I was building small commercial buildings and apartments I employed 93 people. I had a secretary that wanted to be an artist. I let her order a bunch of supplies and charge them to my company. Her husband got upset and made her quit. I had no sexual interest in her but I guess he thought I did. Her paints came and I took them home. So when I went bankrupt I had this huge supply of brushes and new paints in boxes that had never been opened. It was as if by destiny when I wanted to start I already had the materials.  Could it be God knew what He was doing?  I think so.

In what medium was your first painting? What was the size and subject? Do you remember?
          Lucky for me she had ordered oils, so that is what I started with. I soon realized that I was going to take longer than I thought to learn so I invented a process of using gold leaf on the back of glass. I used a Greek lexicon and coined the word "Excruseos" which means out of gold having been done. My technique took off. I could not produce enough. I was making a lot of money selling my reverse painting on glass. This is what made me famous. It was a process that I could produce 100 paintings a week. At one time I had two fulltime salesmen doing bank shows for me. I'd show up for the television interviews and dinners and they worked the shows. Even though I was earning over $500,000 a year selling my gold leaf on glass art I wanted to learn to paint in oils. In I978 I said I would do no more gold leaf. I would learn to paint in oils. I spent over two years painting and throwing everything I did away. I had a nice bank account and it allowed me to visit museums. I must have visited 300 museums. I copied all the masters and the various styles. I copied and copied and studied the works of the great painters. Then the money was running out so I had to start selling my oils. By then I realized I loved detail. I also understood that it was taking me a long time to produce those high detail pieces so I started out fairly soon selling framed prints. Keep in mind I threw away all the paintings I did in oils those 2 ½ years. During this time I developed my double primary palette. Not bragging, just fact, I am an inventive.

Can you give us a bit of background on what finally made you turn to painting full time?
          I was over-qualified for a mundane job and had to earn some money. I had just lost over a million dollars in the construction business. My children were tiny and if I didn't earn some money fast we would have been kicked out on the street. Art seemed to me a logical choice. Even though I had never picked up a brush and would be thirty-seven years old in March, I somehow knew I could do it. My first full year as a painter was 1970. I earned  $43,300 that year.

That's some success story for a beginning artist. What was (is?) your secret?
          I could sell. I also didn't mind working very hard. I guess most of all I refused to fail. When I saw my oils were not going to get good enough, fast enough, I dreamed up a new technique. My gold leaf on the reverse side of glass. It became an instant hit. This is what allowed me to sell over $40,000 my first year and bring in over $100,000 my second year as an artist. Keep in mind, James; this is 1970 money where a $100,000 was like $500,000 in today's dollars.

What fascinates you about the arts?
          I love the emotional impact of art. I love the way art moves people emotionally. I love the fact when someone purchases art it is the one thing that will last for generations. I still have collectors who purchased from me thirty years ago contact me and tell me how much they still love my paintings.  I get on an average a dozen emails a month from old collectors.

So, the accolade that comes with a piece of artwork is really important to you?
          Not really. I have never sought praises. If I do a portrait I want to please the people that I do it for. It is important to me people feel they get their money's worth. I've really never sought accolades other than you did a good job. I'm been given a lot of honors but none I ever sought.  My goal is to do my best on each piece I do and let it speak for itself.  I think if we strive for excellence, fame and money will follow like a baby ducks follows their mother.

Throughout your career as Fine Artist, have you ever had those moments when you doubted and wanted out, perhaps wishing to try another profession?
          No, never! In fact it was hard for me just to stop and write books. If my friends and Mikki (my mate) had not kept pushing I would never have written a word. Painting is my life. Since the day I walked out of that first gallery I have never looked back or doubted my choice. I love it with the same passion I did 33 years ago. I love it as I did when I was a bright-eyed five year old in the old county library.

Who are some of your favorite artists?
          Two people many of your readers won't know much about: A. D. Greer and Melvin Warren. I love Vermeer's use of light and Sargent's handling of fabric. I learned to paint eyes studying Merritt Chase and Sargent. I've learned from each of these artists in different ways.

Can you tell us a bit about Greer and Warren?
          D. Greer was a master painter who never was given his rewards. He, in my opinion, was equal to any landscape painter who ever lived. He could paint a vase of roses and if you got your nose close enough you could smell the fragrance. He was also thirty-seven when he started. He followed the circus as trick shooter; he was a professional boxer that became a sign painter. When he was 37 he decided to learn to paint. The Great Robert Wood painted 10 pieces for him and let him watch. Greer became a dear friend. He was 77 when I met him. He wanted to teach me but I would not let him because I knew I'd want to be like him. Greer could write a painting like you would your name. He hung around and watched me make stacks of money with my gold leaf and marveled at it all.  The truth of the matter is he tried to discourage me from giving up the gold leaf and turn to oils.  He saw the money I was earning with my gold leaf on glass.  I also suspected he knew how horrible my oils were.
          Melvin Warren was one of the founders of the Cowboy of America. He was my inspiration. I never knew him real well. We were friends but not like Greer. Mel didn't drop in unannounced. He once offered to teach me but I declined. He died in, I think, in 1988.  It was his painting that caused me to think it was okay for a man to be an artist.

You say you learned from each of these artists in different ways. Can you tell us what these different ways are?
          From Greer I learned that you never have to stop being an artist. From Mel, I learned that it was okay for a "real man" to be an artist. I didn't learn color mixing or techniques from them. My teachers were the masters in museums whom I copied. I am totally self-taught. I have never been to a workshop, never had one painting lesson, or had anyone teach me whatever where painting is concerned. I developed my color mixing system after reading an article in Readers Digest.

What about Vermeer's use of light? How did this change the way you paint?
          If you go into a place full of paintings you can spot a Vermeer across the room because of the way he uses light. Today when I tell artists about painting light I say: think of having a bucket full of light and splashing it across your canvas. Have a dark on the edge to stop the light from sliding off. The secret of a powerful painting is the use of light. Vermeer did this better than anyone.  Remember: to have light you must have darks.

What did you see in Sargent's handling of drapery that may have sparked a desire in you to imitate him?
          I copied a lot of Singer Sargent's fabrics. He could make the folds feel as if you could touch the fabric and make a dent in it. He is the best I've seen with fabric.

Are there any other artists you admire today?
          I admire hundreds of sculptors and painters living today. There are more great artists today than at any one time in history. I admire quality no matter what the genre, medium or style. I admire professionalism.  I believe no state produces as many "real good" artists as Utah.  Some of the most astounding talents are coming from the art factories in Hong Kong and China.  Their dedication to excellence and knowledge about painting is truly amazing.

I think I've seen you use the word "professionalism" several times before in your articles and books (I've read all three of your books, of course). Can you give us the definition of the word as Jack White understands it?
          Is this a trick question?  I equate art with athletics.  A good college shortstop will make a big league play 5 or 6 times out of 10 tries.  A profession will make the big league play 95% of the time.  I feel a professional artist should nail it on 95% of the work they produce.  If you are a professional athlete you play when you are not feeling up to par.  You don't take a day off because of a headache or feet hurting.  You play with aches and pains.  You don't have to get inspired to play.  You play because that is what you are paid to do.  I think those of us who earn our livelihood, as artists should work with the same dedication of a top athlete.  Our game-day is every day, not just on Sunday afternoon.  I think it goes deeper than that, I don't think there is room for "artistic temperament."  Professional artists understand art is a business.  If businesses ran their companies like many artists do their careers, they would not stay open a year.

Would you call yourself a "realist"?
          Yes, but more of a photo-realist. I was an excellent painter before I had my right arm destroyed in a car accident in 1990. That is when I had to learn to paint with my left hand. I can use my right arm now but not for long hours. I don't have the brush control I had before the wreck. It was a real challenge trying to learn to paint with my left hand because I could not even eat with it. Now I'm a pretty good left-handed painter. I sign those pieces " Gauchér", which is French for "lefty". I have a couple of galleries that carry my "Gauchérs". I have a few collectors who are grabbing them up. I guess they think one day they will have value because of them being done with my opposite hand. The Gauchérs are looser. I cannot be as tight with them.

What about the accident you had? Give us a graphic picture of what actually happened. How long did you stay in the hospital (or did you?). Who took care of business while you were convalescing? Who were you with? What happened to the passengers that were with you?
          Right after Mikki and I married, two young car thieves were fleeing the police and ran a red signal light and slammed into my car on the passenger side.  Fortunately I was alone, because my car was totaled.  I could not move my right arm. I went to the emergency room where the ER doctor treated me, gave me some painkillers, stuck my arm in a sling and Mikki came and picked me up. The next morning I told her we had two choices. I could give up painting or learn to paint with my left hand. I knew I would never stop painting so I started that afternoon trying to learn to hold the brush in my left-hand.

That is an amazing story, Jack! I'm so glad you didn't give up. Have you tried painting in different styles; like Impressionism, Rococo, Baroque, etc.?
          When I was going to museums trying to learn, I tried all of the above. I used kerosene as my medium so the paint would never dry.  This way no matter how good a painting was I would not be tempted to keep it.  It forced me to throw away all of my early oils.  It let me stretch and experiment and try a lot of different styles because I knew it was practice.  I think if I had not used kerosene I would not have been as prone to explore styles.

Is the commissioned work you accept limited to subject or do you accept anything coming your way? Is it important for an artist to specialize?
          Last year I accepted a commission to do a posthumous portrait of Coach Tom Landry for the Fellowship of Christian Athletes new headquarters building. It was a 96" x 52". All the Dallas Cowboys could find for me to work with was a black and white of him in his hat. It was a headshot. Tom and I are the same size so I used my body and put his head on it. Mrs. Landry told me it was the best she had ever seen. That was what I was hoping to accomplish.
          Right now I'm in negotiation with the University of Oklahoma to paint a major portrait of their three most famous coaches. It will be for their new Museum.  Also Baylor University wants me to do a life-sized portrait of their most famous coach.  I'll just have to see if my right arm is up to the task.
          I've just completed a portrait of a very famous Texas Ranger. I call it Peacemaker. Because of my arm I cannot do all those who ask me to paint their portraits. I have to pick and choose.

Earlier you made mention of God. You're a believer, then?
          Most definitely if you mean believer to mean do I believe that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. The answer to that is without question. I became a Christian between my sophomore and junior year of college and have never doubted my experience.  As a young man I spent two years working with Pat Robertson helping him get his radio and television programs on the air.  In fact I MC-ed the first 700 club telethon.

Do you teach art?
          No, I don't teach formal art classes, if that is what you mean, but I do give free lessons almost daily to artists via email. So, I suppose in a way I do teach; however I don't do it in a classroom setting. Artists send me images of their work, I view them in Photoshop and suggest improvements. I'm not saying this to get people to send me art. This is a labor of love and I can only help a few each week. 

What kind of "lessons" do you give via email?
          Many artists email me their images. I put them in Photoshop and show them where they can make changes and improve. For instance, I will remind them you must have dark to have light. Blues go back and warms come forward. The darkest value is the upright. Soft edges recede and hard edges draw the eye to them. I hammer home the fundamentals. This is a free service I do. This week an artist sent me 30 photos of her work. I sit down in the evening and go over each one and make notes. I try to pinpoint where the changes might be made to improve a piece. Then I snailmail the suggestions back.

Do you do workshops?
          I speak from time to time to art associations and art schools. I never charge for my lectures. I feel art has been so good to me I could never charge for the knowledge I've gained. I don't have time to do workshops. Mikki and I sell all we can possibly paint; there is no time to teach. 

So, anybody can just call you and invite you to speak about art and you won't charge?
          That's correct. As a young man I was a professional motivational speaker. I was the keynote speaker at some large conventions. I spoke to the Century 21 National convention of over 12,000 people as their main speaker. I earned my living as consultant to the Home Building industry for several years before I started into construction. So without sounding too Texan, I'm a pretty good speaker.  I don't encourage opportunities, but when asked, I do talk to art groups.

It seems, then, that it is important for an artist to narrow down exactly what they want to do in life; that is, he/she must decide if they want to produce art for galleries, be teachers and give lectures and workshops, or whatever. But to narrow down one's career to a manageable venue is desirable. Is this right?
          A. D. Greer gave me a one-eyed-Jack playing card, which I have carried in my billfold for 30 years. This one-eyed-Jack for me is a reminder to do one thing and do it better than anyone else. This is why it was so difficult for me to become a writer. Writing for me meant I was no longer one-eyed. I'm a painter and I paint. If you will notice, the top artists do one thing and they do it well. The Jack-of-all-trades never makes it. Look at the masters.  I think we must paint what we love.  Rubens loved the nude.  He used his wives as his models. Turner loved the sea.  Moran loved Yellowstone and because of him we now have a National Park.
          Michelangelo loved men and it shows in his glorification of the male body. You know a Kinkade when you see one, the same goes for Royo, Neiman, Peter Max, Jasper Johns. Caitlin loved the Native Americans, Charles Russell the working cowboy, and the list is endless. Paint what you love and keep your eye on the prize.

Can you tell us a bit about your approach to colors?
          After I really began to understand painting, I read an article in Readers Digest that said our eyes have Rods that see black and white and Cones that register color. The cones only see red, yellow and blue. I instinctively knew this is what Monet and the Impressionists were seeking but didn't understand what the cones in the eyes did. So I set out to develop a palette that only uses the three primary colors. I ended up developing a double primary palette. I mix my sienna's, umbers, ochers, from the primary colors and let the brain mix them in the head. My mixing system is on the following Website if artists want to take a look at it: www.senkarik.com. Look under "Making a Painting".  I have a chart that shows how to mix all colors using just the primaries.

Do you have a particular way of laying out colors on a palette?
          I put my darks on the left because that is where I keep the paint thinner. When I wash out my brushes, should any drop off it won't be over my white and light colors. I start with what I call "mud": 50% alizarin crimson and 50% ultramarine blue. I mix them into a deep purple. This is the base color for mixing my browns and darkening my lighter colors. Here is the order I put the colors out on my palette: Mud, Ultramarine Blue, Phthalo Blue, Alizarin Crimson, Cadmium Red, Light Cadmium Orange, Cadmium Yellow, Medium Lemon Yellow, and Permalba White.

Do you have a favorite palette?
          When I do portraits I use an arm held palette. I got my pattern from Wayman Adams. It is counter balanced and is ideal for resting on my left arm while I paint.

What are your favorite paint brands?
          All pigments are the same. It's the binders and how much pigment in a tube that is the main difference. We use Windsor-Newton Winton 200 ml tubes for all but the lemon yellow. We use Da Vinci Hansa Yellow Lt, which is the perfect lemon yellow. It contains blue. You must have a lemon yellow with blue in it for my system to work. Cad Yellow has red in it. We use  Permalba White in the 150 ml tubes. For portraits I use a different set of colors. I use Rembrandt and the regular Windsor-Newton colors because I want the thinner ground pigments. Currently we have started using Winton Mixing white in the 200 ml tubes instead of Permalba.

What is your favorite medium?
          Winsor-Newton Liquin. We use odorless paint thinner to wash the brushes during the day. At the end of the day we clean them with Turpionid Natural. It comes in a green can.

Do you do most of your work in this medium?
          Exclusively in oils.  We have a saying in Texas,  "Jack of all trades and master of none".  It will take me the next thirty years just to master oils.

Why this medium, specifically, and not another?
          Oils sell for more money than any other medium. I did a study and found that an oil and watercolor the same size and quality, the oil would sell faster and bring a much greater price. It is forgiving. You have a greater range of values with oils. Acrylics are difficult to get the nice soft edges. Oils are the choice of the masters. So, if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. Just last week Liz Lindsey emailed and told me she made the switch from watercolor to oils and is now getting three times the amount for the same painting.

Do you believe a painter should get "in the mood" before starting a painting?
          I think getting "in the mood" is a myth. Getting in the mood is a cop out. Like I said earlier, we are professionals, we get up and go to work. We have so many ideas and things we want to do it would take three lifetimes to paint.  We love what we do and wake up ready to meet a fresh canvas as if we were just out of art school. I have found those who must get inspired or in the mood never accomplish much. The true professional makes art when he is not feeling good, if the studio is too cold or too warm or the walls are falling down. We are painters and we paint. If I were a sculptor, I'd sculpt. 

Have you ever had a painter's "block"?
          I think this is a myth, also. I cannot conceive the concept of a painter's or writer's block. I have dozens of books I want to write. I have dozens of paintings floating around in my mind to do. Again I have found professionals never have blocks; it's those playing artist who need to get in the mood or have blocks. I have no patience with people of that mindset. Block is another way of saying, "I'm afraid I cannot do it". I'm in the process of finishing my fourth art-marketing book, Messages of Effusion. I bet I could write three more and all of them have new material. Mikki has a dozen sketchbooks filled with painting ideas. 

In my professional art career I have, indeed, experienced blocks of time where no matter what I did I couldn't create. Perhaps it is different for each individual, but I don't think it's a myth, as you say. It's probably not a problem for YOU, but it is one for others.
          I cannot speak for others. Neither me or Mikki has ever experienced a "block" of any kind. It is impossible for me to comprehend how a professional could have a mental block. I always have more ideas than time. I have novels to write, and a zillion ideas for paintings. My problem is time -- I never have enough of it. I think if you love what you do with a deep passion the ideas will flow like the Mississippi river without it ever drying up. In your case, perhaps that part of your art career was not your life. I am consumed with what I do. I'm an artist 24 hours a day. I only started writing 4 years ago. I was 65 before I ever wrote a word. I have three novels completed that I need to go back and rework. I've written countless articles and three big art books and have a fourth one due October 1, 2003. I have written all of these since I turned 65. I don't have time to get a block.

Perhaps we should define "block". A synonym for "block" would be "creation"; that is, there are moments when that inspiration to create just doesn't come and one feels empty handed, unable to create. It's not the ideas that were missing, or that there are no projects on the shelf, or that the artist might not be consumed with his art. That's not the meaning. I mean that the impetus to create is absent. It's like turning on a tap and no water comes out; although there's no water coming from the tap you can still go about your life and achieve much. The artist is attuned to something beyond himself; attuned with some cosmic energy. When he sits down and wishes to create, he knows that cosmic energy is often available and it flows automatically, freely, just by being ready and willing to receive. So, by "block" I mean being in a condition where the creative spirit doesn't flow.
          Please allow me to say I do not believe man creates. I believe that only God can create.  To create means to make something from nothing.   Man is not capable of doing that.   We take ideas of others and make them ours.  All we know we have learned from others.  I try to never use the word "create" where making art is involved. I have a Whiteism: Originality is in your ability to conceal the source from where you got the idea.  So perhaps the root of what you are talking about is you are expecting to do what man is not capable of.   There was a famous political cartoonist named Herbert Block who worked under the name Her*block.  His art was in over 200 newspapers, but that's not the block you are seeking answers to.  Block means dozens of different things, a city block, block in football, block of stock, block of land or starting block in track. What you are talking about is the obstruction of ideas flowing through the thought process where we assimilate and turn them into a product we call art. It is foreign to me to conceive how an artists or writer could have an obstruction to making what they love. I cannot imagine Stephen King ever having an obstruction of fresh ideas. I cannot dream of Rembrandt running out of ideas.  He painted with oils during the daylight hours and etched at night. Leonardo da Vinci produced thousands of drawing of ideas he wanted to work on. A few years ago we went through the Panama Canal and the gates used on the locks are from his designs.
          I don't know how to answer you because an artistic obstruction is not in my vocabulary. It's scratched out of my dictionary. I wake up in the middle of the night with ideas, and keep a pad next to my bed at night. I jot the ideas down on the pad as they pop into my head. I have eight article subjects that I have made a page on and loaded into my documents as a reminder to do when I have time. I simply cannot conceive how it is possible to not have ideas when you love what you make with zeal. Can you ever dream of a blockage of ways to show your wife how much you love her? I say fall in love with your work and the ideas will never vanish. I don't mean like it, you can divorce a woman you like, but only death can separate you from a woman you truly love. My art is my love profession as Mikki is my soul mate. I am not mentally able to see a blockage keeping me from either -- other than the Grim Reaper! 

Do you have a disciplined work habit or do you paint whenever time allows?
          I get up most mornings between 4 and 5 a.m.. I answer emails and write in my books until ten or eleven. Then I take care of shipping orders. I try to get that done by lunchtime. During lunch we watch the Honeymooners (We have the entire collection) since I feel a laugh break is good. After lunch I paint on my "stuff" until 5 or so.  

How many hours do you spend on one painting?
          It varies. On the life-sized portrait of Coach Tom Landry, I spent about 100 hours.
On my left-handed work that I sign "Gaucher", I can paint a 16 x 20 in three hours.  I once watched A. D. Greer paint a 16"x 20" in twenty-two minutes. It was a splendid landscape.  

How many paintings per week do you produce?
          When I was painting fulltime, and before I started portraits, I produced probably 250 paintings a year. I produced about 25 to 35 Portraits a year. When I was doing the gold leaf I sold over 5,000 pieces. I had three girls laying gold leaf and two salesmen on the road. I did the Echruseos like a Ford production line. Mikki has painted just over 200 original oils a year for the past nine years and we sell all she can produce. 

Do you feel sometimes your work habits are conditioned by orders from gallery sales?
          No! When I was really in my prime I never marketed through galleries. I did sell paintings to galleries. I never consigned. So no, my work habits are not conditioned by outside influences. I consider myself to be a professional artist and I do what I must do -- I paint!  I get up and go to work.  Art is my job.

How do you divide your time between doing business and painting?
          I don't divide the time. It is all one thing. Painting and business are the same. I do business during painting time. Mikki does our books either before she starts painting in the morning or at night. I do all the correspondence. We share making business phone calls. If the galleries require a stern talk I do that, Mikki's calls are always fun and uplifting. We play the good cop, bad cop in business.

How many hours do you paint in one sitting?
          When I was painting fulltime and not writing books, I painted a minimum of ten hours a day. I can remember in the '80s painting 12 and 16 hour days. I destroyed my shoulder painting too many hours a day. I think if my shoulder had not been already weak from so many hours working, the wreck would not have done as much permanent damage.  These days my painting time varies. Most days I get in 3 to 5 hours of actual painting time. In fact before I started writing books I painted 8 to 10 hours a day with my left hand. I'm addicted to my work. I get up very early. I can only paint three hours with my right arm before big knots pop up in my back. So I block things in with my left hand. (There's that word "block" again.) This is why I take so few commissions. It is too painful doing the tight detail. I cannot paint portraits with my left hand. I don't have the control.

Looking at some of your earlier portraits one can see that you painted very tight. Did you come upon this by choice or by accident? Do you think there's a bigger market for tight paintings as opposed to, say, Impressionistic styled works?
          I taught Mikki to paint the way I wish I could or would have. Remember when I started in oils I was already "famous," so I could not afford not to come on the scene with just so-so art. I needed a style that grabbed attention. The untrained think what I do is much more difficult than the lose work Mikki does. The truth of the matter is that it requires more ability to paint in her voice than mine. I knew I needed to impress and the best way I knew was to paint photo-real. A fire destroyed most of the photos of my better high detail portraits. I think there is a market for well painted art, be it abstract, impressionistic, conceptual or photo-real.  It is not the style but the quality and emotional impact of work that makes it marketable. I like to say that unless we make art that connects with people, we won't sell much, no matter what the style or subject..

How do you explain that some people will purchase a particular piece of artwork and not another?
          People buy art because it makes a connection with them. Art must connect. When I was exclusively painting portraits there would be a special place they wanted to hang it and that let me know what size and pose. I liked to know the colors in the room so I could make sure the work didn't clash. I wrote a book on why people buy art, I can't answer your question is a few words.

Do you tell people the meaning of your paintings or do you leave them interpret as they wish?
          When it's a portrait, there really isn't much to say or interpret. It's a commission and that's it; however, I do try to capture their character and stature in life. But with regards my regular originals, I do spin a yarn around them. When we sell an original (not a portrait) online, I always write a short story to accommodate the work. People love a story.

I hear many artists say that "a painting should stand on its own," that "it should sell on its own merit." According to my personal experience, I would say this is a "myth," to use your own jargon. What is your say on this issue?
          You are correct! It is a myth.  Art has to be sold.  It is not like stocking a grocery store where people fill a pushcart. Art is a product that has no apparent need. The salesperson builds the need in the mind of the buyer. Thanks for the idea for another chapter or article. "Stand on it's own."   You see James, this is an example of where my ideas come from. Ideas are floating in the air, all we have to do is be aware and reach out and grab them as they float past. This is a great myth that needs to be addressed.

Your mention of the "pushcart" reminds me that the packaging you see in grocery shelves is backed by millions of dollars on research. Manufacturers test a packages' size, color, width, height, logo, graphics, over and over until they find a "hit". Red, white, yellow and blue, for example, have been found to be the best commercial colors; rounded corners sell better than square corners; a youthul, smiling face sells better than an old, sad face; and so on. In brief, what i am saying is that commercial products must also be sold. Nothing sells "on its own". Fact is, physically the human needs only the basic necessities of water, food, warmth and sleep. He doesn't need the million-and-one other products available. So, why does he think he needs these?
          Somebody out there made us believe that we needed this and that and that other thing. I believe with art it is no different. Somebody made us believe that a van Gogh is a precious piece of art worth millions. Yet, van Gogh used the same (sorta) oils, canvas and paintbrush as you and i still use. It's the idea of a "van Gogh" that was sold to us. There are a million painters out there today who can paint better than Rembrandt. Yet, it is the Rembrandt that is worth 75 million dollars! The stuff in a grocery store is an impulse purchase. Art is not an impulse item like the brand of soap. 

This might sound like a silly question but I want to ask you, anyway: Do you consider yourself a "successful" artist?
          It is not a silly question.  There are no silly questions, just ones that have not been answered. I am very successful. I have the title of Official Texas State artist, I have a street named after me, and have done portraits of many, many famous people. I have earned over a half a million dollars a year several years in a row selling my art. Of course I'm successful. Not bragging. Just fact.

Isn't "bragging" a dangerous thing to do for a man in your position? Not everybody will understand your sincerity of motive.
          Not if you don't flaunt it. You asked and I answered.  I don't walk around telling everyone that I'm successful. The truth of the matter is for the first six or seven years of my trying to get Mikki's career off the ground I never told anyone that I was an artist.  I was married to Mikki six months before she found out about my street and title as the official state artist. A friend asked her how many times had I driven her past my street. That is how she found out. James, I'm a success not because of titles, or the amount of money I have earned. I am a success because each day I get to work on what I would do for free if I won the lottery. Success is having a career that you love with every fiber in your body. I know many, many rich people I would not call a success.  Bragging is when you cannot deliver what you say you can do. Was Joe Namath bragging when he said the Jets would beat the highly favored Colts in the Super Bowl or stating his confidence? There is a difference between confidence and cockiness. 

From what I understand, your meaning of "success" seems to be strictly tied in with earning money: financial success. But aren't there other types and levels of "success"? How successful have you been in these "other" areas?
          I have a successful marriage. We have been married 14 years. We have not spent a night apart. Our easels are beside each other. In those 14 years we have not had one small fuss. That is success. I have many, many friends that I've known most of my life. I consider this success. I have marvelous health. Is this not being a success?  I get to do for a living what I'd do for free. This is success. We live in one of the most beautiful and tranquil places in the world. This is success. I have a mate who is as devoted to Christ as I am. This is a success. Money is never the measuring stick for success. I have been so broke I could not pay attention but I still considered myself successful.  Quality of life and friends is the medium you judge success by. Money only means you are doing what you do with all of your energy behind it and it is working. If a thing is worth doing, it's worth doing to the best of your ability. If you are going to be an artist, then be the best you can be. Don't play "artist". If you are doing a good job you will be financially rewarded eventually.
          James, if I wanted to make money I would not be writing these books. I'd be taking Mikki to the next level but doing serigraphs and putting her in 100 galleries. I promise you I can turn our operation into a multi-million dollar operation in two years. We have the product. All I need to do is start doing Art Expo and sell dealers. It would be very simple to get 100 dealers.  When I was doing limited edition paper prints I had 500 dealers. We are not trying to be super rich. That would be easy to do. I recently turned down an offer from the top art rep in the world. He just moved into a 4 million dollar house next door to Tom Brokaw. He only reps one artist. He wanted to make Mikki his second artist. So if success to me meant money or fame, I'd have signed Mikki with Greg Bloch who reps www.royoart.com.  Royo grossed about 10 million last year selling just Royo.
          So, if I come across as acting like I equate money with success, that was never my intention. Mikki and I give a lot of money away. I've had money and I've been broke, neither made me happy or sad. Happiness is a state of mind, not just how much money you make or where you live. I was happy living in the school gym. The Apostle Paul said, "I am happy in whatever state I'm in."  I assume that could include California :-).

Jack, it most definitely includes California! Do you have any tips for artists who are just emerging and want to make of their art a financially rewarding career?
          First of all I dislike the word emerging artist. "Emerging" connotes to me an alligator coming up from the water. I consider all artists to be artists, not rising, emerging, amateur, beginning but the real thing. I don't think I am superior to any artist at whatever level they are in their career. I most certainly would not want an emerging doctor operating on me. I would not want a beginning pilot at the control of my flight. I was an artist the day I walked out of my first gallery. I know more now.  A glass can only be full -- it cannot be fuller. The word "artist" says it all for me. If any artists wants to know about how to earn money selling their art then read my books. I teach how to become successful. Those who have followed my teachings have all started earning money selling their art.

Jack, I have heard the argument against the word "emerging" from curators and art gallery owners and other artists. But I disagree with all of them. I beg to differ. Is Jack White an "emerging" artist? No? Then what is he? Is he an "established" artist? Are Wyeth, Diebenkorn, Sargent, Whistler, "emerging" artists? No! Why? Because they are "established" artists. If you are not an "established" artist, you are an "emerging artist". By "emerging" is meant "a coming forth into public recognition."
          Inherent within the seed is a rose. But the rose is NOT a rose until it "emerges". To say that everybody is an "artist" is, in my opinion, an erroneous assumption. Leonardo had a very special gift. Very few have this gift. Those who don't might work hard at developing their artistic sense. Once they have dedicated years to art, then they can call themselves "artists". But their work better prove it! A chick in an egg develops and finally "emerges" -- it comes into the open and takes its first breath. A fetus in the womb develops and finally it "emerges" to breath the breath of life. It has "emerged" from one state to another. A human being goes to art school for many years, practices technique, makes mistakes, etc., until he understands how to master his tools and all the concepts behind the techniques. His art "emerges", like a new birth. There are different meanings to "emerging" and i do not see anything wrong whatsoever with using the word with respect to people who call themselves "artists" and starting to come within public purview. Let's call a spade a spade (and Shakespeare might add that a rose is a rose by whatever other name).
          You say you wouldn't want to be piloted by an "emerging" pilot or be treated by an "emerging" doctor. Certainly this stands true for the world of art. Why should a person spend $500, $1,000 or even $3,000 on an "emerging" artist's work? A buyer would have to be mighty ignorant about art to do this, just as he'd have to be mighty ignorant to step into a plane where an "emerging" pilot drives, or lay on an operating table where an "emerging" surgeon is the doctor. The risks in all three cases are perilously enormous!
          My point is that the word "emerging" is used to indicate a transitional stage in the life of a human being dedicated to "art". If the artist is not well-know and established, he is an "Emerging Artist".
          We both have our personal opinions on this matter. I acknowledge that we differ in opinions. But I consider myself to be no better than the person doing their first painting. We are both "artists" to me.
          I understand your point of view. Mine is shaped by the fact that I'm hearing so many artists tell me they don't really consider themselves artists. I use the word "artist" as an absolute.  I don't feel inferior or superior to any artist. We are just all "artist" to me. I do understand I stand alone in my point of view, but I'm comfortable with it. I'm not trying to make anyone agree with me. Like the wheat and chaff, I toss it to the wind. May the chaff be blown away and the wheat fall into good hands. It's up to the artist to accept what they feel is wheat.

Can you give us some examples of people who have read your books and become financially successful?
          Jennifer Young paid an art consultant $22,000 to help her build a career. In three years she did not sell one painting. Jennifer bought my books on art marketing. That was 18 months ago. Last year she earned $13,500. She is in 6 art galleries and two of them are giving her one artist shows this summer.
Jason Abbott was getting ready to take a job at Home Depot. A friend purchased my books for him. I got an email from him recently and he said he is on target to earn over $90,000 this year selling his art. I talked him into switching from pastels to oils and to set up in his local mall. 
          Joe Netherwood is a student of my marketing methods. I bet he can quote them by heart! His wife recently told me that the first seven months this year they had earned double what they had in the best year as an artist.  They both think Joe will triple what he earned in 2002 and they will be the first to tell you it is because of what I taught them.
          Here is a recent letter I received from James Marisco:
          "Jack. Well I have just returned from the Loveland Colorado Sculpture Invitational Show. I did great. I sold 5 bronzes. I know it was 95% thanks to your writings. The sculptors on both sides of me and in the 3 booths across from me did not make a single sale. I saw everything you said not to do in a booth being done by sculptors who made zero sales. Cell phones, sitting low, friends in the booths, everything  I have read you mention.. I tried to sell and did. The work around me in the other booths was as good and better than mine.  I re-read some of your instructions just before the show and it paid big time! "Thank You Again"  Jim (visit Jim's website here: www.jamesmarsico.com)
          Gloria Clifford was a struggling artist. Now she is paying to have her garage converted into a studio from the money she has earned from selling her paintings after she started using what I teach.
          Camile Engle has a similar story. Edward MaCathy the same. Greg Cartmell had over 150 unsold paintings when I first met him. Now he is one of the top selling artists in Mississippi and in several major galleries. I have several hundred emails from those who say I have made a big difference.

So what is so unique about your books? I mean, I can go to any large bookstore and browse through a 100 titles all claiming to teach me how to become a successful artist, how to transform my art into a money-pulling power, and so on. Most of these titles are nothing but gimmicks to make me buy their product. Why should I believe your books are any different?
          I'm a working artist writing for working artists. I understand their frustrations. It may sound trite, but I feel their pain. My books are based on what I have personally experienced and learned. They work because I use common sense. No tricks or gimmicks. Just simple, sound, business advice. I teach that art is a business and should be treated as such. I'm a master salesman. I teach selling as well as, or better than, any book on the market. What I teach is something that I have actually proven to bring results. I do not sit down and read and get ideas from other books and then pass these on as if they were my ideas. I do not pretend to be who I am not. I can "talk the talk" because I have "walked the walk". Since I have never read an art-marketing book, my stuff is original. Art is a product that must be marketed. It is sold like any other product. But we artists produce something people don't need. Ours is a want. Art has to be properly marketed and sold. It doesn't sell itself.

Do you consider yourself a "Fine Artist"?
          I don't get hung up on those kinds of words. I think art is art. I don't like to pigeonhole art. I consider all art to be fine art. In the general use of the word, then, yes, I'm a Fine Art artist.

Have you ever done plein air painting?
          Yes. I think the best teacher is nature. All artists need to paint plein-air so they can learn from life. Photos don't do justice to the actual landscape. When I want to do a painting for a gallery, I do this in the studio because it is more time efficient. Working conditions outside are not conducive to consistent paintings. It can rain, it can snow, it can be too hot, and it can be too windy. To be productive you need to work in a studio environment.

What is the relationship between a gallery owner/director and the artist?
          I make them part of my family. We make sure and visit each gallery two to three times a year. We phone almost every week; many times just to ask how they are feeling, how their children are doing. We call to talk about them. We send flowers on special occasions. We mail them letters and stay in constant contact via emails. When we go to dinner, often we pick up the check. I only put Mikki in galleries that are owned by a husband and wife team. We want a family-owned operation.

This is interesting. Why only galleries that are owned by a husband and wife team?
          Stability. I wanted Mikki in galleries that would give her emotional support should I go first. Also, a family-owned business is in most cases more honest. Unless you are a seasoned pro you need to be careful of large chain galleries. They have a reputation of not always being honest with artists. If a gallery is owned by a single woman or man, they might marry a mate that is the one from hell. The entire gallery picture can change overnight. I want to know what we have and what we will have ten years from now. I have seen a new mate come in and totally disrupt an otherwise great gallery. 

Should you paint artwork that fits into a gallery or find a gallery that fits your artwork?
          We find galleries that we feel our art fits in. I only put Mikki in galleries located in tourist areas. I want people to have only a week to decide before they go home. In tourist areas husbands and wives are together shopping. At home they never shop together. Tourist areas have people visiting with money. People with money purchase Art.

Is any of your own artwork in galleries?
          I'm represented by one of the major art galleries in the world. It's in Nantucket. They sold a 36 x 48 for me last year for $38,000 and a 12"x16: for $5,000. I try to get them 4 or 5 pieces a year. With the books and commissions I'm by passing them this season. With my right arm in such a mess it's hard for me to do more than that for them. He would love to have 24 pieces a year and thinks he can sell all I send. His season starts in mid July and lasts till Christmas. Robert has represented me several years. I just don't talk much about it these days. I'm happy not being in the spotlight. I try to supply Gauchiérs for two galleries. They are both currently sold out of my left-handed stuff. So, actually I'm in three galleries with either my right or left-handed work.

How should an artist go about finding a gallery to represent him? How did you find your first gallery?
          I cover this subject in-depth in one of my books entitled, "Mystery of Making It". My experience tells me that an artist has to start in a virgin gallery. No gallery wants to be your first gallery. So, even if your first gallery is a frame shop, it's a start. From there you can get your second gallery. I teach to personally visit the gallery.

Once a gallery accepts you and starts selling your art, do they expect you to paint in a similar style for the sake of sales?
          My philosophy is: paint your voice. All successful artists have a voice. Galleries want you to stay with your voice because their clients come looking for your work. They don't want a Jack White piece to look like a Warhol. They want a Senkarik to look like a Senkarik. It drives galleries insane when artists try to change genre and styles.

What about finding a gallery? Is it kosher to just walk into a gallery with several paintings under your arm and ask the gallery owner to represent you?
          First find one you think you fit in. Then phone for an appointment. NEVER go on Saturday, since this is a selling day. That is NOT the time to take your work. Don't let them burn you off by saying email or send photos. Tell them photos don't do justice to your work. You cannot see the texture or whatever. Stand firm for a face-to-face meeting. It is harder for them to say no to you in person

Right now I know that you're working on your fourth book. Can you tell us a little about the subject matter, or is this a secret?
          It's called Messages of Effusion.   I tell about it on my site.  It is what the title implies, messages of encouragement and enlightenment that will lift artist's spirits in a flowing manner.

What are your plans for the immediate future? Will you be thinking of retiring anytime soon or is retirement not a word in your vocabulary?
          It is clear to me that you know me pretty well. I don't believe in retirement. All of my friends who retired are now dead. What Mikki and I have talked a lot about is when I reach 85 we will be ready for me to spend fulltime making art and she can start being my helper and painting less. I start up again and just see how far I can go.

Jack, it's been great talking to you. Thank you for this interview.
          It is me who should thank you for taking your time and giving me a space to tell my story. Let's hope some 37 year old man or woman will now know they to can "Make IT."
Jack White
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